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A Review of the Diamond Tangential Tool Holder from Eccentric Engineering
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December 12, 2010
1:17 PM
TylerYoungblood
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I was a skeptic. As were two of my friends who have over 50 years of machining experience between them. But now I'm a believer. As for my friends? Read on …

A few months ago I contacted Gary Sneesby from Eccentric Engineering to see if I could write a review of their Diamond Tool Holder. I had heard great things about tangential tool holders, but I was still a bit skeptical and didn't know quite what to expect.

The tool took about 10 days to arrive, which I thought was fast considering it came all the way from Australia to Seattle. You can also buy the Diamond tool holder from a local UK or US distributor (see the Eccentric Engineering website for details). Either way the tool is about the same price, but you might get it quicker and pay a bit less for shipping if you order from your local distributer.

The tool comes with a the tool holder, an allen key, a quality HSS tool bit (8% Cobalt), the grinding jig, and full color instructions with pictures to hang by your grinder.

So, how well does it work? Exceptionally well!

Using the Diamond Tool Holder with a round HSS tool bit

Here's why I think this tool is great for the beginner:

  1. It's very easy to grind using the included jig.
  2. It produces an exceptional finish. I consistently get as good (or better) a finish using the diamond tool holder than I get using a properly ground HSS tool bit.
  3. It's very rigid allowing for deeper cuts. I can take cuts of about .015-.025 deep on my small lathe using a conventional HSS tool bit, but I can remove nearly twice as much with the diamond tool holder (.030 to .050) depending on the material I'm cutting – without chatter!
  4. The grinding jig can be used to easily grind 55 and 60 degree threading tools for use with the diamond tool holder.

Eccentric Engineering has a promotional video that they put together that shows all the features of their diamond tool holder. The video seems a little dated, but it's well done and worth watching.

They show the tool being used on a larger lathe where they take very deep cuts (as much as .100 at a time). I wasn't able to achieve cuts that aggressive, but I have a much smaller, less rigid lathe in my home shop than what they used in their video. And since many of you have a lathe similar in size to my 10x22, I thought I'd make my own video showing the results I was able to achieve, and therefor the results you should be able to expect with a similar sized lathe.

My video is a bit long (sorry) so if you get impatient just make sure you watch the last 2 or 3 minutes where I show how well the tool cuts cast iron.

My overall impression is a positive one. The tool is well made and of excellent quality. I really do get exceptional results with it. As to the grinding jig, my first impression was that it was a bit wonky with its use of a cap screw to adjust the angle for grinding a threading tool. But after using it I realized that it's not wonky at all. But rather a simple and elegant solution.

Using the grinding jig is as advertised – extremely simple to do. And the bit seems to hold an edge longer than my hand ground HSS tool bits do. In fact, I've been using the original bit for a few months now on Steel, aluminum, brass, bronze, and cast iron and I haven't needed to re-grind it yet (although I have touched it up occasionally with a diamond hone). Initially I was concerned that the one-size-fits-all approach with the 12 degree rake and relief angles would be very effective on some meals, but less effective on others. After all, a HSS tool bit properly ground for steel has slightly different rake and relief angles than one ground for aluminum or brass. Right? But it turns out that 12 degrees is a very good compromise across all the metals I've tried so far.

I don't have anything negative to say about the diamond tool holder from Eccentric Engineering. It performs as advertised and has exceeded my expectations. In fact, I am planning on purchasing a second one so that I'll have one tool holder for a square bit and one for a round bit. I tend to switch back and fourth between a round and square bit a lot depending on the job, so it would be nice to have a dedicated quick change tool holder for each pre-set to centerline.

As for my two friends with over 50 years of machining experience? They were impressed too. They haven't bought their own yet, but then again they get a kick out of grinding their own HSS tool bits and drills. They were convinced that a properly ground HSS bit would give better results than the diamond tool holder.

So I challenged one of them to grind a fresh HSS bit for steel and put their grinding skills to the test. The result? The finish was comparable but the chips coming off of the diamond tool holder were smaller and took more of the heat with them (turning a darker blue) than the chips from the hand ground HSS bit. The lathe (a restored Atlas) also seemed to labor less using the diamond tool holder, and deeper cuts were possible without chatter. I should give credit here to my friend Barry, his HSS bit did produce a similar finish. But he still spent a few minutes grinding it to shape. At least twice as long as it takes to grind one using the diamond tool holder jig.

So if you're one of those guys that thinks he can grind a drill bit just as good by hand as someone using a professional drill sharpening machine (and I'm not talking Drill Doctor results, I'm talking DAREx) than stick with grinding your HSS tool bits by hand. But for everyone else, I'd highly recommend the diamond tool holder from Eccentric Engineering! You won't regret it.

December 12, 2010
2:07 PM
SantaCruzClocks
Upstate New York
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Very nicely done, Mr. Youngblood. What is the pricetag on these things?

Kevin "If it aint broke, fix it till it is!"
December 12, 2010
2:50 PM
Tyler
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They range from between $100 to $150 depending on the size of your lathe. It sounds steep until you own one. Then the amount of time saved by not grinding your own tooling makes you feel much better about the price. 

NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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December 12, 2010
4:10 PM
fenichel
West Vancouver, BC
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  Here and there on the Web, there are several descriptions of homebrew versions of the Diamond tangential toolholder; this list

is probably not complete.  The constructions involve complex angles, but most descriptions include a comment to the effect that the exact angles are not especially critical, and some descriptions give some hints as to the setup required to make one of these.  Did you consider making your own, or did you try to make your own and discover that there was more to it than at first met the eye?

December 12, 2010
9:31 PM
Tyler
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Ah, you've beaten me to the punch. I'm planning on a follow up post discussing different options for those who would rather make their own. But I wanted to start by exposing the readers to the general idea of tangential tool holders before delving into a milling project. For one thing, many beginners start with a lathe and get a mill months or (dare I say it) years later. Also, the diamond tool holder from Eccentric Engineering is hardened, which is also beyond the scope of many beginners. So making your own isn't going to be an option for everyone. 

As to your links, I had only seen the last one! … And here I thought I was doing such a good job researching for the followup article. Thanks for sending those my way! I couldn't access the yahoo groups link however as I'm not a member of that group. Is it worth joining?

If I try to make my own I will either follow Gadget Builders lead (last link) or I'll make one like Jraah's. Both designs are a dovetail style so they will mount directly to my QCTP. Although I'm honestly still leaning toward purchasing a second holder rather than making my own, simply out of convenience. 

Here's a picture of Jraah's design:

His layout marks suggest he was planning on making a second slot for another HSS tool bit, but I haven't figured out why. Af first I thought he was trying to make a left handed version, but wouldn't the bit be tilted the other way?

Anyway, thanks again for those extra links. I'll add them to my list of resources for the followup article because you're right. You could certainly make your own. But for those who don't have a mill, or don't like making their own tooling, Eccentric Engineerings tool is a perfect option. 

NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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December 12, 2010
11:06 PM
fenichel
West Vancouver, BC
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Tyler said:

. . . The diamond tool holder from Eccentric Engineering is hardened, which is also beyond the scope of many beginners.

*** What is the value of hardness in a non-wearing component?

. . . I couldn't access the yahoo groups link however as I'm not a member of that group. Is it worth joining?

*** Yes; it is not dense, but every once in a while there's something worth seeing.

. . . If I try to make my own I will either follow Gadget Builders lead (last link) or I'll make one like Jraah's. Both designs are a dovetail style so they will mount directly to my QCTP.

*** I am leaning toward making one that will fit in a QCTP toolholder, so I won't have to mess with getting a good dovetail fit. 


December 13, 2010
3:18 AM
Tyler
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I must admit, I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to heat treatment (and metallurgy in general for that matter) but I assumed that hardening might add a little extra rigidity to the tool holder. Is that not the case?

NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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December 13, 2010
11:10 AM
fenichel
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Tyler said:

I must admit, I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to heat treatment (and metallurgy in general for that matter) but I assumed that hardening might add a little extra rigidity to the tool holder. Is that not the case?


  I don't know.  I asked out of genuine ignorance, too.  I think of hardness as being primarily related to wear resistance, but rigidity might often be part of the package.  Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness) says

It is important to note that hardness of a material to deformation is dependent on its microdurability or small-scale shear modulus in any direction, not to any rigidity or stiffness properties such as its bulk modulus or Young's modulus.

and a handbook (http://books.google.ca/books?i…..mp;f=false) says

 

 

so I guess it's safe to say that the two notions are not always coupled.  Perhaps a more knowledgeable member will chime in.

December 13, 2010
1:32 PM
Tyler
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It looks like you might be right, that's good to know. Thanks for looking into it.

Now if I make my own I won't feel compelled to figure out how to harden it. I can just seem myself with half a dozen MAP torches trying to get a 3lb chunk of steel to a cherry red temp. I'd likely set myself on fire! Now I don't have to. 

I really need to find a friend with a heat treatment setup … Laugh

NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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December 14, 2010
3:16 PM
glenn105
Buzzards Bay, MA
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Didn't I read something somewhere else on this site that John Lawson had made some Tangential Tool Holders at one time?

 

-Glenn

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