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5:32 PM
January 17, 2012
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I have graduated from working and have been facinated with CNC, metal working and have a cause and need to make some small parts for many projects that I have. I have room for anything in the way of machinery but have no previous machining experience (although I do have a nice 10" swing Atlas lathe) or experience in CNC.
The question is; do I buy a Taig CNC Mill DSLS 3000 4 Axis System and use it to gain some experience with milling and CNC now, with the option of putting it up for sale later? Or do I wait until I can afford my ideal (?) machine (Tormach)? at a much later time?
Is it realistic to use the smaller mill as a platform for self-teaching and machine experience?
Should I consider an intermediate machine, something between the Taig and Tormach?
Do I go get an old Bridgeport to putter around with and frustrate myself with?
I'm gunna do something but due to my total inexperience I would like to at least start off on an appropriate path.
Your opinions or experiences are solicited with respect.
Dennis Kane
6:44 PM
February 10, 2011
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You know I'd be inclined to think that understanding machining characteristics should come first. By that I mean laying out some foundations for CNC projects in the form of a sound knowledge and experience of cutting metal on machines, and to do that manual machinery will suffice.
The way I see it, knowing something about tools and materials, fits, finishes, and limits to a degree where all the effort can be going into learning CNC then you'd be in a better place. I figure if you take on both elements simultaneously it would be like starting college half way through the course.
So for me an entry level mill alongside your lathe will allow you to get that foundation, and when you're ready to move into CNC your choices and decisions will have the weight of some mileage behind them, and you'll be able to move into the more competent machine with confidence.
7:08 PM
April 27, 2011
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I agree with Jerry.
As you said you have no previous experience with machining, I would start off small and work your way up to what you want. When I started getting all my tools together I use to buy 1 major tool every year and gain some experience before going onto the next. Now I have a workshop full of machinery which I use all the time without having to go back to the manual for troubleshooting problems. Hope this helps.
Mtw fdu.
8:40 PM
October 11, 2010
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A Bridgeport is not an ideal choice for a CNC conversion, a used but running machine will cost as much as a new Tormach, not to mention you will have to go through the efforts of installation and the cost of ball screws, some massive stepper motors and a powerful control unit. So depending on your budget I recommend getting a dovetail column mill somewhere between a micro mill and a RF-45 and converting or alternatively, a pre-made CNC mill such as Tormach or the Seig KSX 1, 2 or 3. With that said I still not keen on CNC machines, not only because of the cost and effort involved, but because they take from the enjoyment and craftsmanship of the machining.
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1:43 AM
October 10, 2010
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Viper7926 said:
I …have no previous machining experience…or experience in CNC.
The question is; do I buy a Taig CNC Mill DSLS 3000 4 Axis System and use it to gain some experience with milling and CNC now, with the option of putting it up for sale later? Or do I wait until I can afford my ideal (?) machine (Tormach)? at a much later time?
I was in the same spot you were 18 months ago. I was (and am) interested in CNC, and had very limited experience in CNC or machining. I received some excellent advice on Practical Machinist to first learn manual machining before I dived into CNC, and further, the best way to learn manual machining was to attend classes at the local community college. I've had a couple of semesters of manual machining now, and I'm currently in my second semester of CNC machining and just starting a class on a 3D program called Solidworks.
Having taken both manual and CNC machining courses, I can't imagine jumping into a CNC machining class without any manual machining experience. There are a lot of skills you pick up in manual machining (caliper/micrometer measurements, cutting tool experience, layout, order of operations, etc.) that are essential in CNC machining.
I now have a bench lathe (Grizzly 10x22 lathe) and a bench milling machine (Grizzly G0704). I hope to do a CNC conversion on the mill later this year, but plan to get in a bunch of manual milling on it first.
Taking machining classes at the community college will get you on a firm foundation of learning machining the right way and how to do it safely.
The College of DuPage and Moraine Valley Community College are near you and offer manual machining (not sure about CNC). Woubonsee Community College and Triton College appear to only offer CNC machining, but it may be worthwhile to call them anyway.
Titaniumboy
6:48 AM
January 17, 2012
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Thanks everyone for their input and advice I truly appreciate it.
So far, this is where I am:
No 2000 pound Bridgeport, don't know how to evaluate one, can't move one, don't know if my floor will support one (I have radiant heat in my buildings floor), can't fix one and would eventually have to sell one if I bought one and wanted to go CNC.
Keep looking for small to intermediate size mill, hopefully from someone one step ahead of me who is moving up.
Thanks to Titaniumboy, I went back and looked again at the College of DuPage courses and found this course which has a wednesday class that I can try to get into for the Spring Session!! Looks like a plan for me…………..!
11:37 PM
January 9, 2009
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I agree with everything previously stated, especially attending a local community college. That's exactly what I did. I signed up for an 80hr adult learning course in the machine shop. It was basically the intro to machining class without all the lectures on theory.
If I had it to do over, I'd have paid more and attended the lectures as well, as I would have learned even more. But for me the 80 hours was enough for me to get my feet wet and gain confidence. Not to mention the requisite skills and understanding of safe machining methods. Had I not attended those classes I would have (at the very least) crashed my lathe. Or even worse, injured myself with some safety no-no that I wasn't aware of (like pulling coils of chips away with my fingers – that's soooo tempting to people who aren't aware of how dangerous it is!).
Anyway, the money I spent on those 80 hours (maybe $400? I can't remember) paid for itself tenfold. I had a better idea of what I wanted to do, how to safely do it, and what kind/size of machines I would need to accomplish my goals. Definitely take the classes. You won't regret it for a minute!
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5:38 AM
January 18, 2012
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Viper7926 said:
I have graduated from working and have been facinated with CNC, metal working and have a cause and need to make some small parts for many projects that I have. I have room for anything in the way of machinery but have no previous machining experience (although I do have a nice 10" swing Atlas lathe) or experience in CNC.
The question is; do I buy a Taig CNC Mill DSLS 3000 4 Axis System and use it to gain some experience with milling and CNC now, with the option of putting it up for sale later? Or do I wait until I can afford my ideal (?) machine (Tormach)? at a much later time?
Is it realistic to use the smaller mill as a platform for self-teaching and machine experience?
Should I consider an intermediate machine, something between the Taig and Tormach?
Do I go get an old Bridgeport to putter around with and frustrate myself with?
I'm gunna do something but due to my total inexperience I would like to at least start off on an appropriate path.
Your opinions or experiences are solicited with respect.
Dennis Kane
Imagine you are starting out as a machinist Dennis,and are an apprentice,what do you think that your employer would have you do,go straight onto programming and operating a C.N.C. machine?I think not.Machining has been around for a few hundred years,C.N.C. machining for maybe 40,machining is the skill,C.N.C. the add on.I have learned through hard experience,that trying to start something from the middle is not the way to go.Buy a milling machine by all means,but buy one that can be retrofitted with C.N.C.,learn to use it manually.The king of machine tools,is the Centre lathe,it is king,because it's the most versatile……..it can also be fitted with C.N.C.but once again,retrofit it with C.N.C. after learning to use it manually.Working with metal,as working with wood,requires experience,and 'feel',This,as I'm sure all members would agree,can best be done by starting starting manually.I am not trying to discourage you,but to save you the discouragement and frustration you will undoubtedly experience not to mention the expense,if you try to start in the middle.
11:54 AM
October 10, 2010
Offline
Dennis,
Now that you've got a class or two of manual machining under your belt, tell us how things are going.
I remember popping into my manual machining class a couple of weeks after the class had already started. The instructor let me add the class and immediately handed me a piece of 3/8" square mild steel stock and sent me to the grinder to start grinding a lathe tool bit. Only after we had got all three sides (compound angles) to +/- one degree did he give us a 3/8" high speed steel to grind on for real. It took several days of many hours of standing at that damn grinder, testing the angles with a protractor and going back to the grinder. It was frustrating, but eventually I sort of got the hang of it. Now things like sharpening scissors and knives around the house are a whole lot less intimidating than they used to be.
Titaniumboy
4:33 PM
January 17, 2012
Offline
Alas and alack, it was too late to get in the class. I even went to the night class when it met for the 2nd session of the 16 weeks to plead my case with the instructor. He was sympathetic but as he explained " I've got 16 students and 16 machines (six lathes and six mills) so I can't squeeze any more students in"
I will be up at midnight when registration for the next session opens in the Spring to make sure I get in. Thanks for the tip though I appreciate it, I'm sure it will work out. I will update the forum with my "progress" after I get in, will be interesting to see if an "old dog can learn any new tricks!!
In the meanwhile I have been diligently researching CNC mills and lurking on the various forums on the web and have come to the conclusion that there are about 15 to 20 companies marketing the hobby/prototyping size mills, read brands of Mills, I'm interested in, but only a couple of actual manufacturers?
It also seems to me that the various Chinese makers seem to make the same mill but with different specs for different distributors. ?
I'm so confused that I may have to put all the specs of the different machines down on a spreadsheet to see how each lines up with the others. If anyone has done that already I would be interested in seeing a copy.
In the end, I am undetered and plan to go ahead with learning the software end of the CNC process.
Thanks for your help.
D.K.
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