Forum

A A A

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search:

— Forum Scope —



— Match —



— Forum Options —




Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
chucking mounting question
February 6, 2012
9:14 PM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
1
0

I have posted here before but it has been a really long time (6 months plus).  To refresh I have a Crftsman 12x36 from the 40's I am guessing.  When I semi restored the lathe to make perational this past spring, I replaced the old worn (original) chuck.  The budget was tight so I picked up a 3 jaw 5" chuck off of e-bay for $100 or so.

 

IN my excitement to get the lathe operational again, I don't think I properly mounted the chuck. Tonight removed the chuck and checked the backplate.  It's was .001" error so I "trued" up the face and got it about as close to error free as possible.  I remounted the chuck,I think this might be my problem. Originally when I mounted the chuck I removed a little bit of the "lip" that the chuck slides over on the backplate and now there is a bit of "looseness" when the chuck is put on the backplate.  With the chuck mounted the error at the jaws (0" inches away) is  about .003" and at 2" from jaws it is about .005" error.    

 

Is this the norm for "low end" chucks or is the "lip" that I machined down too much a contributing factor and I should be abel to get better results?

February 7, 2012
11:05 AM
Jerry
Moderator
Forum Posts: 560
Member Since:
February 10, 2011
Offline
2
0

Can you back off the holding bolts and tap it true? That'll prove it's the lip (Register Spigot) that's out if so.

February 7, 2012
11:21 AM
ironring1
Vancouver, BC
Senior Member
Forum Posts: 429
Member Since:
July 23, 2010
Offline
3
0

Bisonfan, the error that you are getting is pretty high for a chuck. 
Runout is one thing, but I'm surprised about the angle.  If I were you,
I would mark it's current orientation on the spindle with a grease
pencil or similar and note the direction of the tilt.  Then, rebolt the
chuck to the spindle rotated one or two holes CW or CCW, and measure the
orientation of the tilt.  If it changed with respect to the spindle,
the problem is the chuck.  If it stayed the same, the problem is with
your spindle.  Never forget rule # 6: Get the data!

 

-Chris

February 7, 2012
8:18 PM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
4
0

@ Jerry – This is what I did last night.  I mounted round stock in the chuck and tested the "error".  I double checked the round stock to make sure it was close to "error" free as possible. 

 

The suggestion of Ironring1 is one I am going to try next.  I also want to check the backplate and the register spigot to make sure that it isn't preventing the chuck from seating properly againist the backplate.

 

It most likely will be a few days before I am able to get back at testing the lathe.

February 9, 2012
9:36 AM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
5
0

So i had a chance to work on the chuck last night.  I found that the back plate was off by .001".  A very light pass and I was able to remove that.   I also removed a light pass from the register spigot to ensure that it was true with the lathe.

 

After remounting the chuck and testing with tool grade steel rod over 1/2" thick I was able to get the chuck error to .001" at about one inch from the jaws.  I plan to do more testing over the next week to ensure that these numbers are accurate.   

February 9, 2012
12:08 PM
ironring1
Vancouver, BC
Senior Member
Forum Posts: 429
Member Since:
July 23, 2010
Offline
6
0

Bisonfan, I'm glad to hear that things are getting better with your lathe :)  One thing that I hadn't asked before was how you are measuring the alignment of your chuck.  What I recommend (and you might already be doing this…) is to get yourself a piece of ground steel shaft from a printer, the thicker the better (if you can find an older line printer, you'll get 15mm diameter or larger shafts).  These are about as round a shaft as you can find, and bloody hard, so they will stand up to a lot of rechucking without getting marred.  Chuck up a piece of that shaft and mark out (with a sharpie) distances every couple of inches or so from your chuck's jaws.  Next, use a DTI to measure it's eccentricity from the lathe's spindle axis at different distances from the chuck.  This will give you a very accurate measure of the chuck's alignment.  Note that you will measure both the headstock alignment (the mean of the DTI readings), as well as the eccentricity of the chuck/chuck-mounting (max-min of the DTI readings).  If the max-min is constant as measure further from the chuck, then the axis of the chuck's jaws is parallel with the spindle axis.  If the chuck's jaws are not parallel with the spindle axis, then the max-min will INCREASE as you get further from the chuck.

 

-Chris

February 9, 2012
8:15 PM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
7
0

Ironring1,

 

I am going to contact a business hardware retailer in town tommorow to see if they have any junk printers that I can get one of the shafts out of.  the current testing method is a tool grade steel shaft a bit over 1/2".  It is only about 8" long so it is difficult to really test the the runout. 

 

What happens if hte jaws aren't lined up with the spindle.  Keep adjusting the head to try to get them lined up or consider a different chuck?

February 9, 2012
10:53 PM
ironring1
Vancouver, BC
Senior Member
Forum Posts: 429
Member Since:
July 23, 2010
Offline
8
0

What you do depends on where the problem lies.  Is the front of the chuck parallel with the back of the chuck?  With a cheap chuck, it's conceivable that some crap got underneath the chuck with the opposite face was being machined.  I had some tooling – I can't remember what – where this was the case. 8" is plenty long enough for the steel shaft, though, as long as it is accurately round (that's why the ground shafting is ideal).  1/2" diameter is thick enough that it won't sag enough to matter under its own weight.

 

In a 3-jaw chuck, the key surfaces are the slots in which the jaws slide, and the rear face of the chuck.  If these are parallel, then your chuck is fine.  The other things to check are the jaws themselves.  Do the jaws have any play when mounted in the chuck?  Are the jaws' sliding surfaces (those that slide in the slots of the chuck body) at right angles to the jaws' clamping surfaces?  If the jaws fit well into the chuck body and the jaws' clamping surfaces are at right angles to their sliding surfaces, then, if the problem is with the chuck itself, it must be either the ways for the chuck jaws or the rear surface of the chuck.  Beyond that, it would have to be the mounting plate of your spindle.

 

Keep in mind, though, that your tooling has to be more accurate than what you plan to make with it.  Rebuilding a defective chuck isn't rocket science, but it requires very careful measurements and accurate machining, maybe even scraping.  At some point, you need to ask yourself whether or not it is worth it to repair the chuck (that is, if it is damaged).

February 10, 2012
5:54 PM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
9
0

SO I picked up a 1/2" drill rod stock (oil ground) that is 36" long from fastenal today to use as my test bar.  My lathe is a 12"x36".  Over the course of the weekend I plan to follow these tests.  http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/L…..Align.html  I also am planning to test the chuck width to see if it is good.

February 11, 2012
9:36 AM
bisonfan
Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
May 15, 2011
Offline
10
0

OK I spent about an hour or so taking measurements on the lathe this morning. My worst feears were realized. 

The spindle:  If I push with modrate strength I can get the spindle to move back and forth horizontally by 0.001". I equate this to the same pressures that would be put on the spindle by the cutting tool. (worst fear)

The back plate:  It's error is 0.001" (spindle error most likely?)

The chuck:  I measured the depth of the chuck by each jaw runway, even.  The jaws have slight, slight movement but are tight.  I did notice that the jaws close tight in the front but taking the back cover off the chuck I see that he back of the jaws are not touching each other (one jaw isn't two are).  This has me a bit concerned.

 

spindle Horizontal relation to the ways:  At 12" out form the chuck it is 0.010" off.

spindle Vertical relation to ways:  at 12" out from the chuck it is 0.050" off.  At 24" it is .100" off. 

 

My plan of action is going to be deciding how much error can I live with and what is fixable on this machine.   The lathe is a craftsman 12"x36" built by atlas.  These machines aren't known for their great precision accuracy.  (I got the lathe free from a past employer)  I can fix the vertical alignment by shimming the headstock(rollie method from what Ihave read).  The horizontal relation might be fixable however I need to level the ways (bed) by obtaining a precision level and making sure it is level. (guessing right now it isn't however this may correct some of my vertical relation to ways issue).

 

step 1, get a precision level and get the bed level

step2, try to shim the headstock vertically to get close

step 3, figure out where I sit after those two steps and re-evaluate

 

At this point it seems like too many factors are influencing the overall cutting picture that I need to get them taken care of first before I get too carried away with worrying about the chuck…

 

Forum Timezone: America/Vancouver

Most Users Ever Online: 60

Currently Online:
26 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

norman: 466

ironring1: 429

GarethBell: 384

Alexander m: 338

Titaniumboy: 322

blame: 290

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 11902

Moderators: 3

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 5

Forums: 18

Topics: 1089

Posts: 9263

Newest Members: Eric Prather, pfinlay@joeys.org, dipstick, digitalis49, Pete59, relte

Moderators: snigit (1), madreptillian (93), Jerry (560)

Administrators: Tyler (1516)

Page 1 of 11
Total Visitors:
© 2008-2012 ProjectsInMetal.com - Free Project Plans, Tips, and Tricks for the Amateur Machinist
ProjectsInMetal.com is not affiliated with the magazine "Projects In Metal" published by Village Press from 1988 through 1998.