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6:06 AM June 3, 2010
| Wooly Mammoth
| | South carolina, USA | |
| Senior Member | posts 182 | |
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Am still waiting on my Harold Hall books, the lathe course, mill course, and tool sharpening… so am gona passthe time trying my hand at making the spring center posted here. The drawings are clear, I understnad all the dimensions, parts, how & why it works, etc. [back in prehistoric times, I made a tool to accomplish the same thing in the drill press, but without the spring, etc, so while it did help my hand-tapping work, it was less than satisfactory] .
So I don't 'machine myself into a corner' – hehehe – could an experienced machinist here list the machining sequence so I don't have to make 3 or 4 of these before I get it right?
Yeah, I'm smarter than a bar of steel [well sometimes :)], but maybe not smarter than the FIRST piece of steel !:)
Thanks,
– Don 'doing things the awkward way since 1956'
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11:04 AM June 3, 2010
| Tyler
| | Seattle, WA | |
| Admin
| posts 1328 | |
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I'm back from my vacation in Idaho and ready to end my isolation from the internet!
I'm in the process of making a vide of the Spring Center project, but it isn't finished. I tend to be long winded and over-explain things, so the video for making the nose cone was 30 minutes long – despite the fact that the part can be made in about 10 minutes.
A member by the name of Troy O posted pictures of the process for using the lathe to perform the milling cuts (so if you don't want to use your mill, or don't have a mill yet, the project can still be finished completely on the lathe). Here's a link back to the original project and Troy's instructions.
http://www.projectsinmetal.com…..athe-mill/
Anyway, here's the process I used.
The Nose:
- Start by chucking a 2.75" long piece of steel for the nose cone. Use a 3-jaw chuck. Use something slightly larger than the finished OD (which is .750). I think I used 7/8" round stock. Chuck the part so that 1.75" is sticking out and face and center drill then end. You should have 1" securely held by the chuck jaws. If this is too short for comfort, start with a longer piece.
- Once center drilled, support the end with a live center seated in the tailstock. Then reduce the shaft diameter to 0.499 along the 1.5" length. Take light cuts until you get used to your lathe's capabilities. 0.005 or so. Maybe 0.010. As you approach the final diameter of 0.499 take very light finish passes (0.002 or so) until you get to the final diameter. If you're having trouble getting a good finish you can reduce to 0.500 with the tool and use medium to fine grit sandpaper supported by something flat (like a file) to evenly reduce the diameter the last thousandth of an inch to .499. You can even use scotch-bright with cutting fluid to give it a nice shine. Note: I used High Speed Steel (HSS) tooling to cut this part because the carbide inserts I had gave it a terrible finish. You might want to do the same.
- Reduce the end of the shaft to 0.375 for a length of 0.05 (this creates the notch for the spring to sit in).
- Deburr any sharp edges with a light touch of a file.
- Remove the part and flip it so that 1.250" of the 1.5" you just cut is held by the chuck jaws. Then reduce the diameter of the end sticking out from 7/8" (.875) to .750. Use very light passes since you're not supporting the end with the tailstock.
- Face the end so that the cone portion is only 1" long (total length of the part should be 2.5" with about 1.25" chucked)
- Set your compound at 30 degrees to cut the cone. Take very light passes (.005 or so) until you have a fairly sharp point. Polish with sandpaper and file if necessary.
- Follow Troy's setup for drilling the hole in the nose cone using the lathe. Or use a mill.
The Body:
- Using the same 7/8" stock, chuck a 3.75" piece so that 1.5" is sticking out. Face, Center drill and support with a live center in the tailstock.
- Reduce the diameter to 0.500 along the shaft for 1.1" and chamfer the end.
- flip the part so that .750 of the 1.10" is chucked and face, center drill, and support wit a live center.
- with the 2+" supported with a center drill, reduce the diameter from .875 to .750 and polish.
- Remove the live center and replace with a .250 drill. Drill to a depth of 2.2" Note, if you feel like the part isn't adequately supported, you can re-chuck the part so that the 3-jaw chuck is holding the part by the .750 diameter of the shaft, but re-chucking may result in a loss in concentricity between the part's OD and the ID of the bored hole.
- Step up in drill sizes until you're at a 31/64" drill. Ream to the final 0.50 diameter.
- Chamfer and deburr edges.
- Follow Troy's steps for milling the .250" x 1" pocket in the side, or use a mill.
I purchased a spring that fit (for about $1) but you can also make one out of piano wire (or some other spring steel wire) by chucking an appropriately sized bolt or (better yet) a piece of all-thread in your lathe jaws and wrapping the wire around the threaded bolt. I won't explain the process here because I don't want someone to get hurt by a piece of piano wire whipping around – just go buy yourself a spring that fits.
I don't think I missed anything, but I might have. Let me know if these directions help. Good luck!
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NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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6:28 AM June 4, 2010
| Wooly Mammoth
| | South carolina, USA | |
| Senior Member | posts 182 | |
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Thanks Tyler – as unofficial president of the 'Duffus Club', I appreiciate you taking the time to do this. As I said, I know I could do the project, just a question of how many tries it would take for me to stop machining myself into a corner… and I'm probably not alone in this 'ah sh*t!' experience.
– Don chief duffus since 1947
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10:20 AM June 5, 2010
| Tyler
| | Seattle, WA | |
| Admin
| posts 1328 | |
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No problem. Since the spring center was actually the very first thing I ever turned on a metal lathe I remember how puzzled I was at a few of the steps. Now making one would be simple, but if you've never done it and it's your first project it seems a lot harder. If you deviate from the steps above and find a simpler method be sure to let us know. There's more than one way to do it, that's for sure.
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NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
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4:26 PM June 22, 2010
| Wooly Mammoth
| | South carolina, USA | |
| Senior Member | posts 182 | |
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Since I'm reluctant to try Troy-O's milling setup on the lathe yet, I decided to drill & tap [on the drill press] the hole for the allen-head 'retaining' bolt before I turned the nose-cone. That way I had a solid, cylindrical nose-cone and 'collar' section to aid in keeping the bar square in the vise for drilling. I had already turned down the part of the shaft that fits into the body of the tool… Next time, I'm thinking, I'll drill the hole before chucking it in the lathe to begin machining. – would then tap it AFTER reducing it to size. Or isn't it a good idea to turn down a cylinder that has a cross-drilled hole? Should I drill it the full 'tap-drill' size before machining, or should I just drill a smaller 'locater' hole, machine the part, then drill to the tap diameter and proceed?
RE the spring… I had an assortment of springs from HF – none that were long enough were stiff enough to suit me,, so I nested a longer one inside a stiffer one – If it doesn't work well enough when the tool is finished, I'll probably make a spring… for a relative small spring like this one, I wouldn't use the lathe, but rather a bolt or threaded rod of suitable diameter as a mandrel, chucked in the drill press [guess I could do it on the lathe, but my limited experience in this area has been with the drill press] – for wire I'd straighten out a large paper-clip, winding it around the bolt, with the drill press TURNED OFF. The end result may not be pretty, but will work in a non-precision application like the spring center. YMMV
– Don Re-intenting the wheel for longer than I care to remember :) – besides if it was EASY, then everybody would do it! :)
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12:44 PM June 24, 2010
| Tyler
| | Seattle, WA | |
| Admin
| posts 1328 | |
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Use a v-block in a vise to hold the part steady while you center drill, drill, and then tap the hole. Don't move the part once you've started the process, that way the center drill, drill, and tap all line up perfectly. In the future, this would be the perfect place to use your spring center because you'd put it in the chuck to help align the tap. Since you don't have one yet you just have to be careful as you tap the hole. You could put something with a 60 degree point into the drill chuck and just put pressure on the quill to help keep it aligned, but it's not really necessary if you're careful.
If you're going to make your own spring might I suggest piano wire? Do you have a local music store that you could buy some from? It works great for making your own springs! I've also heard of people using welding wire, but I'm not a welder so I have no idea what type or size might work. I'm not sure if a paper clip would have enough spring in it to work well. You really need a piece of spring steel wire. Feel free to wind the spring on the lathe if your lathe can go slow (like 30 RPMs). And this is one of the rare times where gloves would be a good idea, just don't get a glove caught in the chuck. But at such slow speeds it's pretty safe.
Chuck a suitable diameter bolt to wrap the wire around. I drilled a hole in my bolt to thread the wire through, then folded it over so that I could put a fair amount of tension on the wire as the lathe pulled it through my gloved hands and wrapped it around the threads on the bolt. Remember to wear eye protection too – if the wire breaks or comes loose it will be coming back in your direction.
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NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
- REMEMBER: You need to subscribe to your posts so that you'll receive an e-mail update when a member replies. You can also set your profile up so that you're auto-subscribed to all your posts. To set up Auto-Subscribe go to Profile > Personal Options > Auto-Subscribe to Posts.
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1:34 PM June 28, 2010
| Wooly Mammoth
| | South carolina, USA | |
| Senior Member | posts 182 | |
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RE milling the slot in the side of the spring-center body:
The mill cutters have been ordered, and should arrive this week… so am thinking about the milling process – my first time milling anything :) -
Since Mammoths aren't 'millers', but rather 'stompers'… :) I had an idea re milling the slot, to locate AND limit the milling process… locate, mark, center drill and drill the ends of the slot through to the bore of the spring center body – that way, when I set up to mill the slot, I have a definite 'start' and 'stop' for the mill's travel, since as I understand 'milling', a number of passes are necessary for this.
My question for those with experience is: is this a good idea, bad idea, or just an idea that is more trouble than it's worth?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
– Don 'Is "redundancy" a "double-dunce"???' :)
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6:51 PM July 3, 2010
| Tyler
| | Seattle, WA | |
| Admin
| posts 1328 | |
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Hi Don,
I just learned something today thad might be of help. You're on the right track with the idea of center drilling and drilling the start and end of the slot, but it isn't necessary if you do one of two things.
You can either use a 4-flute end mill that is undersized for the slot and cut the slot to length. Then true up both sides to width. If you use a full sized end mill to cut your slot in one pass you'll get an ugly oversized slot.
Your other option is to use a "slot drill". This is basically a 2 or 3 flute end mill that can be used to plunge and cut slots. In america they are sometimes referred to as center cutting end mills.
A discussion of this exact topic can be found here:
http://www.projectsinmetal.com…..head-mill/
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NOTE: I work full time and I'm attending college full time as well. So if it takes me a few days to respond, please don't take it personally. If it's urgent please send me a Private Message.
- REMEMBER: You need to subscribe to your posts so that you'll receive an e-mail update when a member replies. You can also set your profile up so that you're auto-subscribed to all your posts. To set up Auto-Subscribe go to Profile > Personal Options > Auto-Subscribe to Posts.
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