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To supply or fabricate stainless steel panels with small corrugations.
September 10, 2011
3:10 PM
andrewk
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We did have a company here that used to fabricate corrugated precision sheet metal, in production quantity, unfortunately, used to is the key, they got out of sheet metal to concentrate on machine work I just found out.

 

I did have a thought today as I studied the brake at the shop, could you fabricate a simple brake or modify a cheap brake to do the job yourself? I know carpenters use wide, and light brakes to fold flashing for exteriors of windows and such. Could you maybe beef one of these enough to do your job? From your original post I think you would have no problem designing such a piece, and this may be the cheapest option as you will be working on your time, and may only need a shop to cut a few parts for the brake.

 

September 11, 2011
4:15 AM
Peter Dow
Aberdeen, Scotland
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andrewk said:

We did have a company here that used to fabricate corrugated precision sheet metal, in production quantity, unfortunately, used to is the key, they got out of sheet metal to concentrate on machine work I just found out.

 

I did have a thought today as I studied the brake at the shop, could you fabricate a simple brake or modify a cheap brake to do the job yourself? I know carpenters use wide, and light brakes to fold flashing for exteriors of windows and such. Could you maybe beef one of these enough to do your job? From your original post I think you would have no problem designing such a piece, and this may be the cheapest option as you will be working on your time, and may only need a shop to cut a few parts for the brake.

 

My original post is a request for quotes to supply panels to my specification.

My original post was not a request for thoughts as to what tools I could make so you are drifting off topic somewhat there.

Whilst I have invited discussions about "how to make them" I meant in the context of how a sheet metal fabrication shop could make the panels, not how I should try to make them at home.

September 13, 2011
1:29 PM
Tenn
Linden, TN USA
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Perhaps you should find a "sheet metal" forum instead of a "machining" forum. All metal work is not the same regardless that it is metal. Surprised

Regards,  ~Chris

         The man who will not share his wisdom, however foolish it may seem, For the betterment of his peers and the improvement of his trade, Is not worth his weight in swarf !   Learn from others mistakes, you probably won't live long enough to make them all yourself. But I do think I'm making progress on a lot of them!   ~Chris    
September 26, 2011
10:15 AM
Peter Dow
Aberdeen, Scotland
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Tenn said:

Perhaps you should find a "sheet metal" forum instead of a "machining" forum. All metal work is not the same regardless that it is metal. Surprised

Regards,  ~Chris

 

The tools I need for this job are all machine made, whether those are

  • standard off-the-shelf tools such as press brake V-dies,
  • custom-modification of standard tools, typically by grinding bits off them or
  • specialist corrugating tools custom-designed to make the desired corrugations.

The main reason I have found it hard to get affordable quotes for this job is that sheet metal fabrication shops do not have appropriate tooling. Therefore although this is a sheet metal fabrication job, there is most definitely a need for machining of appropriate tooling to be done first.

Standard tools

Standard tools listed in tool manufacturers' catalogues, such as this Amada 12206

are most likely best bought from the manufacturer. I think it unlikely that any machinist could better the price of the likes of Amada for making a copy of a tool they already mass produce.

Custom modification of standard tools

Standard tools can often be improved for this job by custom grinding to suit.

Example

Example of customizing an Amada 12206 to allow the tool to "revisit" previously formed corrugations to allow the bends to be selectively increased to curve or straighten panels.

 

 

 

Amada quoted £226 or $350 extra for the modification in addition to the £127 or $200 for the cost of the standard tool. Maybe a machinist here can quote to modify this tool?

Example

Another example would be to modify one of a press brake offset die pair, the Rolleri CEZ-5,5.
 

 

Press brake offset dies (YouTube)

Video shows a press brake offset die pair being used to create an offset, joggle or narrow return bend in a sheet of metal.
 
The offset dies are not suitable for corrugating as they are off the shelf because if you try to make an offset bend pair too close to a previous offset bend pair the previous bends foul the tool.
 
Maybe though a simple modification by grinding or machining one of the offset dies would allow offset bends to be placed right next to each other, forming corrugations?
 
The Italian firm "Rolleri" have a catalogue of press brake dies and their range of offset dies is in handy 0.5 mm increment sizes of interest.
 
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/703/twooffsetdies.jpg

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1065/offsetfacts.jpg

The top offset die can be modified as follows to allow closer offset bends.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6982/offsetnewdie.jpg
 
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9479/offsetdiecorrugating.jpg

The yellow line indicates the positioning of the sheet against a back-gauge for a down-stroking press brake, before the press action.

The green line indicates the positioning of the sheet against a back-gauge for an up-stroking press brake, before the press action.

The red area indicates the edge of the top die holder which must be machined off to stop fouling the sheet at a 45 degree up angle.

 

Specialist corrugating tools custom-designed to make the desired corrugations

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9783/rkcorrugation.jpg

View image full size

I have extracted the above image from the R-K Press Brake Dies Inc.,  Alsip, Illinois, USA, catalogue. PDF download – Right-click, Save target as ..

 

R-K Press Brake Dies Inc., website – C-5 Corrugation Die Set

The C-5 die set is used to form continuous corrugations in a sheet. After the first operation the spring loaded pressure pad locates the sheet and becomes self-gauging.

 

Here is a 3-D graphic diagram showing the principle of how such corrugating dies work.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4553/corrugatingdie675.jpg

Here is a plan diagram showing the dimensions for a corrugating tool for my desired profile.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1893/corrugatingtooldiagram.jpg

So there is machining work which could be done but for such a small job, where only 12 panels are needed, a large investment in machine tooling is not really justified. But if any amateur machinist here thinks they can machine a suitable tool at an affordable price then here is a good place to quote for what you can do.

October 2, 2011
3:47 PM
Tenn
Linden, TN USA
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Mr Dow I must comment that you really do an excellent job of explaining how to accomplish this task ! Smile

It has been a learning experience for me just reading your posts and I hope you get a bid on your work.

Makes me wish I was up to the task.Frown

Wishing you luck and a bid on your job.

~Chris

         The man who will not share his wisdom, however foolish it may seem, For the betterment of his peers and the improvement of his trade, Is not worth his weight in swarf !   Learn from others mistakes, you probably won't live long enough to make them all yourself. But I do think I'm making progress on a lot of them!   ~Chris    
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